Feminism

[DramaticBateman]

Feminism is a pretty polarizing idea currently, and with so many strongly opinionated people on this site , I'm genuinely curious to how you guys feel about it. Do you think it's needed? Do you consider yourself a feminist? If so, what does feminism mean to you? I really would like to get an interesting discussion going here, so feel free to post anything related to feminism.

Also, please try to respect other's opinions. So many conversations are ruined because people become hostile when others don't agree with them.

[air raid bitches]

I'm going to try to keep it short for now... yes, I'm a feminist. Feminism isn't only about women. It's also about what we consider "feminine" and the negative connotations around it. We could talk for days about the wage gap for women in the US, rape culture, and the countless double standards. Feminism concerns men as well. Why is one of the worst insults for a guy to be called a "pussy" or a "bitch?" Why is it unacceptable for men to show emotions or cry?

Anyway, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Thought I would at least contribute something here

[BornThisWay94]

I am a feminist. I believe women and men should be equal, and that women should be treated with respect! However, I do NOT hate men and I do NOT think that women should be able to do whatever the fuck they please (IE: Showing breasts in public places, wearing revealing clothing in inappropriate places to wear them). Basically the opposite of a Tumblr feminist.

[dazzle]

I'm a feminist. I don't need to apologize for it nor do I need to point out that I'm not "like other feminists". I don't want to be the female version of "Not all men".

[Mia Wallace]

In short, yes I am a feminist. To me feminism means equal rights for both men and women and this is something I care about a lot.

I hate the fact that so many people group all feminists in with radical feminists and social justice tumblr feminists, it just isn't fair.

[DramaticBateman]

Agreed^ So many women (and men) that I speak to are anti-feminism, but in reality, they have no idea what it's about. People seem to think the typical feminist is someone who doesn't shave and sacrifices men for fun. I really make of point of explaining to people what feminism ACTUALLY is, and literally every person has said, "Oh yeah, I can agree with that". It's crazy how an incorrect stereotype can alter the understanding of a word.

[Guest]

There aren't enough hours in the day to tell you what I think of feminism, but I will say this:

Whilst I'm entirely for equality between every person, I would rather die than label myself "a feminist". I'm too lazy to explain the multitude of reasons why. (No, I'm not one of those people who believe feminism is about the extinction of males and bras.)

Well, this was a pointless post.

[HattieChaos]

I think sometimes it's counter-productive to label yourself a feminist immediately because in certain settings, that will discount what you say and you won't be able to get your point across properly. E.g: If I was trying to explain to a group of guys why I hate rape jokes or slutshaming or something, I wouldn't precede it by letting them know I'm a feminist because I know I'm capable of showing them why it's wrong without letting the label interfere with what I'm saying and allowing them to dismiss anything I say.

I think it's quite sad that the poster above has went as far as to say she'd rather die than identify with the term, and that sort of proves my point about how it's sometimes better to keep yourself from identifying with it if you're trying to convince people to your way of thinking.

I don't really mind people that don't identify as feminists, as I find that most people can be persuaded into being anti-slutshaming/recognising the existence of rape culture/etc. but will still not call themselves feminists because they don't feel it really adds anything but prejudice. As long as these people continue to participate in the fight for equality, I have no problem with them. What we should want is the end goal: equality - and it shouldn't matter if that is brought about by feminists or not.

I do have a problem with anti-feminists, though, i.e: MRAs and so on, and I'm sure I don't have to explain why!

[Mia Wallace]

I have to admit I'm sometimes hesitant to label myself as a feminist around certain people because they just don't understand feminism at all and I get tired of explaining that not all of us are part of the crazy radical minority. I think that a lot of people instantly have negative thoughts when they hear the word feminist. Most of the time though, if the subject comes up, I'll simply say yes I'm a feminist, and briefly explain my views.

[freckles mcgee]

I am a feminist. I want there to be a day where women are offered the same opportunities as men and that both men and women can accept all the types of women out there regardless of their choices.

This video is long. But it's one of my favorites regarding feminism.
[youtube][/youtube]

[Guest]

To clarify: I don't refuse the label because of what other people think of feminists, it's more to do with all the issues I have with the movement in modern society, the people a part of it, and mostly because I hate labels. I don't want to put myself into a box and I despise putting myself in groups. It's one of the worst things I could do to myself, imo. I have my opinions and I stand alone with those opinions.

Also, in modern society, I think the name "feminism" is rather...unhelpful. Back in the day it made sense, but now it makes things more difficult, and for so many reasons. Why would I use a label which is not only attached to a group I don't like, but is also in itself "problematic" (I fucking hate that word)?

[HattieChaos]

Yeah, I totally get what you mean, that's what I meant about how making it known that you identify with a label can backfire. I do still identify as a feminist because I buy into all the "stronger together" and solidarity stuff, but that's it really. I totally think it's possible for someone to share all the same opinions as me, but not come under the title feminist - e.g: my boyfriend, who also refuses to be called one. It's purely a matter of preference. The argument that calling yourself a feminist can make things more difficult is so true and as someone who is quite vocal about my feminism within the various circles I'm a part of, I can 100% vouch for that. In the Debate Club at my school, one of the debates we had was on gender equality, and the girl that did it was hugely feminist but didn't mention the word anywhere in her speech. She made excellent arguments and won with only 4 people voting against her (out of 35 IIRC). She said she was quite certain it would have been different if she made that association with feminism and I agree. It can be helpful to identify with the term as a form of standing together and to bond with other "activists" (if that's your field), but in terms of trying to actually convince society to change - which is surely what we all have in common - it's sometimes better not to.

[TiffanyMaxwell]

I wish those active feminists here in the western world would pack their stuff and move over to Saudi Arabia and places like that where they are needed most. I feel like a lot of feminists are hypocrites because they keep quiet about what's happening to Muslim women, such as being treated like cattle. I'm not saying there are no inequalities regarding other women, but their problems are comparably small. I, for real, am fine. Thank you very much.

[CaramelDrop]

I'm a feminist. I don't need to apologize for it nor do I need to point out that I'm not "like other feminists". I don't want to be the female version of "Not all men".

I have never and will never apologize for being a feminist because of the "bad" ones. Just like I would never apologize for being a woman, being American, or being black just because there are people within those groups who do or say things I don't necessarily agree with.

[HattieChaos]

I wish those active feminists here in the western world would pack their stuff and move over to Saudi Arabia and places like that where they are needed most. I feel like a lot of feminists are hypocrites because they keep quiet about what's happening to Muslim women, such as being treated like cattle. I'm not saying there are no inequalities regarding other women, but their problems are comparably small. I, for real, am fine. Thank you very much.

British feminists have went on and on and on about FGM in feminist media for the past year. As a result, there is progress being made (in Britain) to stop FGM and lots of discussion about FGM has kicked off thanks to the feminists. We certainly don't ignore those more serious issues. The fact is, Western countries also have issues with women's rights. Need I remind you of America's relationship with abortion, or the recent issue in Ireland where a suicidal rape victim was denied an abortion and forced to have her baby. This argument sucks, it's like telling someone who is sad that they shouldn't be because there are kids starving in Africa, or telling the LGBT community to shut up because gay Ugandan people have it worse. You can care about more than one issue at one time, and the reason Western feminists focus on Western issues is because that's all they can do anything about (in most cases). No thank you, I will not "pack up and move" to Saudi Arabia (you do realise that most of us wouldn't be allowed to, right?) because I'd like to continue with my education and life here, which in many cases is being made worse because of my gender (in combination with my class and immigrant status). I agree that white, cis, straight, middle-class women don't have a lot to complain about but if their reproductive rights are being infringed on, or they can't walk down a street at night without being leered at, or they are getting raped, there is still a problem.

[ravioliiii]

[instagram][/instagram]

Thought this img was quite relevant.

I am a feminist, although some people in the feminist community can be quick belittle others who are curious/are new to the whole shabang instead of being friendly and informing
I think *some* feminists (ones that I have encountered in the past) can take curiosity as douchebaggery
For example, I've seen people be attacked for being unsure of pronouns when they have asked about them
(always use they/them if you are unsure, or ask politely)

[HattieChaos]

I think sometimes it's just frustrating and after months of informing people you kind of get sick of it and wish they'd do their own research haha. I'm thinking specifically of this guy I talked to who was insanely smart and really into LGBT activism (he was bi), and because he was so smart he wasn't used to people explaining stuff to him so he'd sort of dismiss whatever I said. I just got so pissed because as someone so active in the LGBT community, which is so linked with feminism, the fact that he wouldn't accept that women still got discriminated against... It just read to me like he wanted to accept stuff that applied to him (LGBT) but didn't want to believe any other group had any problems. Then after him I ended up getting this onslaught of people who... Just didn't get it. I try to be friendly at first but if somebody has clearly already looked up feminism and came to a conclusion about it, there just isn't a lot of point because anti-feminists will usually argue their way of out of anything.

However, if it's clear that someone is brand new to the movement (i.e: hasn't actually made any conclusions/isn't going into it with a million arguments against it) I will be happy to inform. Ironically, the best experience I had with convincing someone into feminism (or at least into recognising sexism exists) was with a rich white guy. What Tumblr would consider the "enemy". He was really open to it all and although he had some inklings that feminism was about hating men/not shaving/all the stereotypes, he was smart enough to put those prejudices aside and listen for a few minutes. I just don't have a lot of patience, especially with bad arguments that have such obvious answers - "but what about the 'bad feminists'", "but what about the men", "but women can work and vote now". I consider myself an extremely critical person, if feminism didn't make any sense or wasn't a logical answer I would have dropped it by now. There have been times where I've recognised a certain feminist community just isn't for me (*cough cough* Tumblr) but I am yet to be convinced that a feminist ideology itself has no place in modern society - yes, even in the Western world.

[TiffanyMaxwell]

No thank you, I will not "pack up and move" to Saudi Arabia (you do realise that most of us wouldn't be allowed to, right?) because I'd like to continue with my education and life here, which in many cases is being made worse because of my gender (in combination with my class and immigrant status). I agree that white, cis, straight, middle-class women don't have a lot to complain about but if their reproductive rights are being infringed on, or they can't walk down a street at night without being leered at, or they are getting raped, there is still a problem.

^ You do realize that my comment about moving to KSA was to be taken with a pinch of salt... The thing is that a lot of religious Muslim folks want to establish Sharia law in western countries for civil matters. Their law, for instance, says that a woman's statement in front of the court is half that of a man. That's the group of women which is most discriminated against and I don't see any so called feminists standing up, most likely for the sake of 'multiculturalism'. That's my problem. They focus on all the other shit instead.

[HattieChaos]

Yeah, I recognised that was hyperbole, no worries. You conveniently miss out my comparison to gay people in Uganda. My question to you is what do you expect us to do about that? We can't do anything. There is still lots of discussion within feminism about what is going on in the middle east, but not much beyond discussion because we simply can't do a lot. If you have any ideas, please go ahead and suggest some. We focus on what effects us because it's all we can do anything about at this point in time.

Just because you haven't seen feminists talk about the middle east (I have, a lot.) doesn't mean it's not happening. If you're not even part of the movement, how do you expect to be in tune with what it is discussing? Just the other week there I saw a feminist article written about attitudes towards women and sex in Iran. The discussion is happening, you're just not paying attention to it.

[dazzle]

Please tell me exactly what use it would be to any woman in Saudi Arabia if we'd "pack up and move" there? Like, explain to me what good it would do considering the high probability that no one would even get the chance to speak out.

Newsflash, feminists do talk about circumstances in non-western and middle eastern countries. I'm wondering why you think you can claim otherwise when you obviously don't engage in these discussions? I mean I realize I'm basically repeating what HattieChaos said, but I can't help myself.

Besides, yes, there will be "feminists" who don't care about non-western women's rights, just like there will always be people speaking out against racism who really only support a certain non-white group of people, and so on. That doesn't mean the whole movement is responsible for these kind of people.