Cathy Hay | Part 2

[Koalaty_knits]

The scent of desperation around FR increases every time someone mentions it. Clearly her whole MLM vibe has failed spectacularly to haul in the increase in members she needed and I can't say I'm shocked, honestly, I'm almost impressed it held out this long.

Reading the website....she mentions her parents bailing her out with finances at one point.

[andipales]

I'm starting to wonder if moving to the US was done to try and save her hide in financial terms if things have got that bad.

[CarryOnGossiping]

I am reminded of the podcast If Books Could Kill. So many of the books they review are just people explaining their grift and how to replicate it, saying the quiet part out loud. The FR business workshop sounds exactly the same!

[PlainSalted]

I'm starting to wonder if moving to the US was done to try and save her hide in financial terms if things have got that bad.

She didn’t really move to the US. She’s spending life ‘on the road’, moving between countries and residences, or that’s how I understood the situation. I can’t imagine that that’s a cheap lifestyle.

I had a peep at the website for her new course and I think the thing that’s putting me off is the fact that she seems to be teaching this all by herself. She’s a business owner, but not a business educator, and lived experience of succeeding at something one way does not make you an expert qualified to teach. Her insights may well be valuable, but at least get in some speakers who specialise in particular aspects of (creative) business and get an actual educator involved. Knowing how to do something does not also give you knowledge of how to teach it. Education is a skill of its own that’s too often devalued by these kinds of people.

That, and I’m having a really hard time figuring out how she justifies the $1000 price tag if she doesn’t have anyone else to pay. I’m all for charging your worth, but that involves knowing what you are or aren’t worth.

[MillicentF]

That, and I’m having a really hard time figuring out how she justifies the $1000 price tag if she doesn’t have anyone else to pay. I’m all for charging your worth, but that involves knowing what you are or aren’t worth.

Oh, but she has "now a team of 12 to provide [livelihood] for!" And, apparently, they will now run FR on their own, (almost) without her, so that she can focus her whole attention on the new "business course" and its victims.

[PlainSalted]

That, and I’m having a really hard time figuring out how she justifies the $1000 price tag if she doesn’t have anyone else to pay. I’m all for charging your worth, but that involves knowing what you are or aren’t worth.

Oh, but she has "now a team of 12 to provide [livelihood] for!" And, apparently, they will now run FR on their own, (almost) without her, so that she can focus her whole attention on the new "business course" and its victims.

I mean, great if it goes towards the FR employees, but questionable that their salary needs to come from another project that has nothing to do with them (though it’s all under HH productions, so I guess it’s technically the same company)

[Koalaty_knits]

According to the testimonials, one person used the course to buy cottage, it was apparently one of her goals in the course. That kind of seems to muddy the waters of 'business'.

The website does say it's not just Cathy. There will also be ''advanced trainings with some VERY successful creative entrepreneurs''.

[PlainSalted]

According to the testimonials, one person used the course to buy cottage, it was apparently one of her goals in the course. That kind of seems to muddy the waters of 'business'.

The website does say it's not just Cathy. There will also be ''advanced trainings with some VERY successful creative entrepreneurs''.

Ope, my bad. I overlooked that the first time, with all of that emphasis on her and her years of experience. Thanks for catching that one!

Just noticed something I didn’t see before: it says the first 50 attendees get access to a ‘VIP bonus session’ valued at $297. I wonder what she could do in that session that could be worth that kind of money. Explain how to rob a bank and not get caught?

[Koalaty_knits]

I wondered that too. Every time I look at the site, I get more questions. Who are the extra special speakers? What's in the bonus sessions?
The email today said the prices were adjusted down, since there were so many applicants for the scholarships. But I didn't notice a change.

[dramaticflavour]

Honestly, the most disappointing thing for me is that this course for „artisans“ uses AI generated images of artists’ studios for the website. When we all know that AI is actively stealing real art from real artists to create these new digital versions. That is not a good look.

[outspeckle]

How long until she starts promoting finding your twin flame sewing mentor?

[outspeckle]

Honestly, the most disappointing thing for me is that this course for „artisans“ uses AI generated images of artists’ studios for the website. When we all know that AI is actively stealing real art from real artists to create these new digital versions. That is not a good look.

That is straight-up scandalous, especially consider how rampant image theft by scammy sellers is. How many people have done videos about finding their work for sale on AliExpress or wherever?

[outspeckle]

I'm starting to wonder if moving to the US was done to try and save her hide in financial terms if things have got that bad.

She didn’t really move to the US. She’s spending life ‘on the road’, moving between countries and residences, or that’s how I understood the situation. I can’t imagine that that’s a cheap lifestyle.

I had a peep at the website for her new course and I think the thing that’s putting me off is the fact that she seems to be teaching this all by herself. She’s a business owner, but not a business educator, and lived experience of succeeding at something one way does not make you an expert qualified to teach. Her insights may well be valuable, but at least get in some speakers who specialise in particular aspects of (creative) business and get an actual educator involved. Knowing how to do something does not also give you knowledge of how to teach it. Education is a skill of its own that’s too often devalued by these kinds of people.

That, and I’m having a really hard time figuring out how she justifies the $1000 price tag if she doesn’t have anyone else to pay. I’m all for charging your worth, but that involves knowing what you are or aren’t worth.

She used to be a math teacher, so she actually does have training in education philosophy. I think she does have the skills to teach but her communication/advertising is tied up in the same sort of scammy course promotion that every online course seller is using these days. I don't even know that online courses are the best way to teach sewing or pattern drafting, since so much of it is hands on. The business course is going to be underwhelming, too, since they're all 1) know your local tax and business laws/consult a lawyer, 2) start an LLC to reduce personal financial risk/separate business financials from personal financials, 3) have a healthy savings for when business slumps, and 4) pay attention to marketing trends. That's basically every small business course since social media marketing became a thing.

Just from watching indie yarn dyer collapse, I would also add "resist exponential growth at the cost of your emotional health" but the work/life balance stuff rarely comes into play for small business courses.

[Koalaty_knits]

I'd HOPE it mentions things like ''know your local tax codes'', and ''zoning for businesses''. But the descriptions don't seem to mention anything so concrete. It's all ''prevent burnout'', ''knowing your value and price for joy'', ''how to be creative for your business without killing the joy of your hobby'', which are all good things, but a bit too airy fairy.

[outspeckle]

I'd HOPE it mentions things like ''know your local tax codes'', and ''zoning for businesses''. But the descriptions don't seem to mention anything so concrete. It's all ''prevent burnout'', ''knowing your value and price for joy'', ''how to be creative for your business without killing the joy of your hobby'', which are all good things, but a bit too airy fairy.

How Tony Robbins of her.

[Koalaty_knits]

Ah. Another email today about who the very special extra speakers are.
-Heather Campbell : teaches branding
-Melissa Pruitt : social media for selling
-Jeff Walker : the art of launching (or relaunching) your business
-Dylan Ayaloo : ''getting your head straight''

[PlainSalted]

She didn’t really move to the US. She’s spending life ‘on the road’, moving between countries and residences, or that’s how I understood the situation. I can’t imagine that that’s a cheap lifestyle.

I had a peep at the website for her new course and I think the thing that’s putting me off is the fact that she seems to be teaching this all by herself. She’s a business owner, but not a business educator, and lived experience of succeeding at something one way does not make you an expert qualified to teach. Her insights may well be valuable, but at least get in some speakers who specialise in particular aspects of (creative) business and get an actual educator involved. Knowing how to do something does not also give you knowledge of how to teach it. Education is a skill of its own that’s too often devalued by these kinds of people.

That, and I’m having a really hard time figuring out how she justifies the $1000 price tag if she doesn’t have anyone else to pay. I’m all for charging your worth, but that involves knowing what you are or aren’t worth.

She used to be a math teacher, so she actually does have training in education philosophy. I think she does have the skills to teach but her communication/advertising is tied up in the same sort of scammy course promotion that every online course seller is using these days. I don't even know that online courses are the best way to teach sewing or pattern drafting, since so much of it is hands on. The business course is going to be underwhelming, too, since they're all 1) know your local tax and business laws/consult a lawyer, 2) start an LLC to reduce personal financial risk/separate business financials from personal financials, 3) have a healthy savings for when business slumps, and 4) pay attention to marketing trends. That's basically every small business course since social media marketing became a thing.

Just from watching indie yarn dyer collapse, I would also add "resist exponential growth at the cost of your emotional health" but the work/life balance stuff rarely comes into play for small business courses.

Thanks for catching me on that one, I forgot about her history as a math teacher. That being said, I'm still highly sceptical of her qualifications regarding this course. Her guests seem mostly legit and seem like they will teach things that are actually useful (well, aside from Jeff Walker, I guess), but from what I can tell, they're 'bonus' guests, which along with the info from the website leads me to assume she'll do all of the other teaching herself. There are many things this course could cover that I definitely do not think she's qualified to teach and the constant repeat of teaching 'from life experience' without giving any concrete course content is really throwing me off. I'm only speculating, of course, but I get the feeling that this is just a monetised version of her inspirational YT videos.

By the way, did anyone notice that she posted a video featuring a run-through of the course and then deleted it again? I got it recommended on YT, but I didn't watch it and now it's gone. It would have been nice to get some concrete info about the course contents so we don't have to sit here theorising about what still potentially could be a good course (which I do hope it turns out to be for the sake of the people taking it, because boy, that's a lot of money. I've worked jobs where my monthly salary was only a little bit more than the price of the course...)

[PlainSalted]

Honestly, the most disappointing thing for me is that this course for „artisans“ uses AI generated images of artists’ studios for the website. When we all know that AI is actively stealing real art from real artists to create these new digital versions. That is not a good look.

How can you tell that they're AI generated? Are the drawings further down AI generated too? I'm not doubting you, I just don't know how I'd be able to spot that. It's a really crappy thing to do either way. Surely there are enough stock photos of artist studios out there?

[MrMunchies]

Honestly, the most disappointing thing for me is that this course for „artisans“ uses AI generated images of artists’ studios for the website. When we all know that AI is actively stealing real art from real artists to create these new digital versions. That is not a good look.

How can you tell that they're AI generated? Are the drawings further down AI generated too? I'm not doubting you, I just don't know how I'd be able to spot that. It's a really crappy thing to do either way. Surely there are enough stock photos of artist studios out there?

Apart from the fact that none of them make sense as a place where an artisan would work (thousand brushes next to a sewing machine ???), the lamp in the first picture, and the conjoined shoes in the victorian one.

[PlainSalted]

How can you tell that they're AI generated? Are the drawings further down AI generated too? I'm not doubting you, I just don't know how I'd be able to spot that. It's a really crappy thing to do either way. Surely there are enough stock photos of artist studios out there?

Apart from the fact that none of them make sense as a place where an artisan would work (thousand brushes next to a sewing machine ???), the lamp in the first picture, and the conjoined shoes in the victorian one.

They don't make sense, but I've seen more stock photos that don't really make sense so I initially assumed they were stock photos. Hadn't noticed the lamp and the shoes, though... Bad move, Cathy.